Health bill could pass without vote
Speaker Pelosi says she might use a procedure to provide political cover.
By LORI MONTG0MERY and PAUL KANE The Washington Post
WASHINGTON - After laying the groundwork for a decisive vote this week on the Senate's health care bill, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi suggested Monday that she might instead try to pass the measure without having members vote on it.
Related headlines
Instead, Pelosi, D-Calif., could rely on a procedural sleight of hand: The House could vote on a more popular package of fixes to the Senate bill; under the House rule for that vote, passage would signify that lawmakers "deem" the health care bill to be passed.
The tactic -- known as a "self-executing rule" or a "deem and pass" -- has been commonly used, although never to pass legislation as momentous as the $875 billion health care measure. It is one of three options that Pelosi said she is considering for a late-week House vote, but she said she prefers it because it would politically protect lawmakers who are reluctant to publicly support the bill.
"It's more insider and process-oriented than most people want to know," the speaker said in a roundtable discussion with bloggers Monday. "But I like it because people don't have to vote on the Senate bill."
Republicans quickly condemned the strategy, framing it as an effort to avoid responsibility for passing the bill, and some suggested that Pelosi's plan would be unconstitutional.
"It's very painful and troubling to see the gymnastics through which they are going to avoid accountability," said Rep. David Dreier of California, the senior Republican on the House Rules Committee.
"And I hope very much that, at the end of the day, that if we are going to have a vote, we will have a clean up-or-down vote that will allow the American people to see who is supporting this Senate bill and who is not supporting this Senate bill."
House leaders have worked for days to round up support for the legislation, but the Senate measure has drawn fierce opposition from a broad spectrum of members.
Anti-abortion Democrats say it would permit federal funding for abortion, liberals oppose its tax on high-cost insurance plans, and Republicans say the measure overreaches and is too expensive.
Some senior lawmakers have acknowledged in recent days that Democrats lack the votes for passage. Pelosi, however, predicted Monday that she would deliver.
"When we have a bill, then we will let you know about the votes. But when we bring the bill to the floor, we will have the votes," she told reporters.
Pelosi said Monday that House Democrats have yet to decide how to approach the vote.
But she said that any strategy involving a separate vote on the Senate bill "isn't too popular," and aides said the leadership is likely to bow to the wishes of its rank-and-file.
As Pelosi and other congressional leaders pressed wavering lawmakers, President Obama highlighted how close the result may be as he focused his attention Monday on Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, who has been a stalwart "no" vote on the Senate bill.
Kucinich, an uncompromising liberal, has rejected the measure because it does not include a government-run insurance plan.
Obama invited Kucinich to join him aboard Air Force One for a trip to Cleveland, where the president made a plea for health care reform, the third such pitch in eight days.
Asked whether Obama had been persuasive, Kucinich demurred. But Sen. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, said Kucinich is coming under intense pressure from Ohioans who want Congress to act, and from his colleagues in Washington.
"All of us -- the governor, the congressional delegation, the president -- are making clear to Dennis that we won't have another chance for a decade if this doesn't happen," Brown said.
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147 COMMENTS
Gwedd said...
If The dems use this tactic to try and pass the bill, then they will be comitting treason. The "Slaughter" procedure would be blatantly unconstitutional, and violates the oaths that every member of Congress swore to protect the Constitution when they took office.
March 16, 2010 at 1:37 AM Report abuse
UofA said...
I can't believe that this idiot would really do this. These tricks and dog & pony shows in our Congress should stop. We send people to Washington to vote for the people, not do tricks like they are in Las Vegas.
March 16, 2010 at 4:18 AM Report abuse
otisslee said...
Here's an interesting question. If this bill is 'so right' and 'so necessary' and 'the majority of Americans want it' and 'its what we were elected to do' then why is any political cover at all necessary? Wake up people. Your country is being sold out from under you.
March 16, 2010 at 5:24 AM Report abuse
PAJ said...
If they don't have the votes and they use this approach then it has become about the win not what is good for the American people.
March 16, 2010 at 5:54 AM Report abuse
Gary said...
If this bill was really a good thing for the American people, then why do the dems and the annointed one have to rely on back room deals to buy votes from members of their own party? We are being sold down the river by Mr. One and Done and his band of idiotic party robots.
March 16, 2010 at 6:23 AM Report abuse
Biddy said...
Do you people read? Note the article said this procedure has been COMMONLY USED. The only difference is the size of the legislation. How can a procedure that has been used hundreds of times be unconstitutional? Because you don't like the legislation ? If it were unconstitutional and would have been challenged and banned long before this. I'm not a fan of this particular bill because I would have rather have seen a public option and most liked a plain single payer plan. But something needs to be done and this bill will provide coverage for 31 million people who don't have it. Pragmatically it is the bill to pass. The effort to reform it into a more extensive plan can begin the day after.
March 16, 2010 at 6:43 AM Report abuse
Biddy said...
And those without insurance , or with crummy coverage should thak the Republican Party, the Insurance companies, and the Medical industry for their plight. The R's controlled the government from 1994-2006 AFTER the cracks in the health system were exposed in the Clinton years. They did NOTHING to change the situation. Costs skyrocketed during their tenure. And they have the gall to complain about something being done?
March 16, 2010 at 6:47 AM Report abuse
Mainedog said...
Biddy, the republicans are standing up for what the American people want! Why do you think Brown was elected in Mass! His whole platform was running against this bill. No one is saying healthcare reform is not needed but this bill stinks and according to the CBO will actually raise rates! Why push thru a bill that doesn't do what it is suppose to just to pass something! This is not healthcare reform it's another entitlement package!
March 16, 2010 at 6:58 AM Report abuse
Biddy said...
You can't point to one election and use it as the gold standard for American opinion. For that matter a Democrat beat a Teaparty candidate in upstate New York last fall in the heat of the health care debate. Mass. also already has a health program. The issue wasn't as important there. I'd bet if the President's bill was put on the ballot in most blue states it would pass. There would probably be as much opposition from the single payer advocates as there was from the right. The majority favor a government solution to health care. The major dispute is if this bill goes far enough not if there should be less Federal involvement.
March 16, 2010 at 7:07 AM Report abuse
Mainedog said...
Brightone, you say your self employed than you need to take a business class and economics 101! Smart business people figure ALL their costs for doing business and selling their product or service, what makes you any different! You complain you can't afford healthcare but it's you who is causing the problem by not charging properly for your services! Just because you are not a smart business person doesn't mean the you deserve to be giving something for free! That’s all you want something for nothing! It's liberal crying weenies like yourself that's causing this country to go into a economic death spiral!
March 16, 2010 at 7:08 AM Report abuse
MainenCrisis said...
Democrats will do anything to force their will on people. What do tehy care if the have no majority or basic rules and desires of the majority of the 300 million of us. Expect huge protests and civil unrest if they do this.
March 16, 2010 at 7:17 AM Report abuse
Biddy said...
Mainedog. That's the issue in a nutshell sir. You see MOST businesses are competitive and that competition limits the price one can charge for a service or product. In most cases the only way to create more income is deliver more service or create or sell more product. The strength of the market determines that. Not so with things like Oil, Pharma, Insurance, and health care. Those are things that classify as essentials and most are regulated monopolies where there is little competition. They can charge what they want or what regulators allow and customers pay the price or go without. Any self employed person can charge what he/she wants. But if the cost is factored into the price in most cases consumers will go elsewhere. They have lots of choices. Including foreign products where the government relieves business by paying for health coverage.
March 16, 2010 at 7:20 AM Report abuse
Retiree said...
Pelosi is a Danger to this Country and needs to be removed from her position. The position has gone to her head. She thinks she is the high mighty leader.
March 16, 2010 at 7:43 AM Report abuse
ModerateOne said...
This is right out of the Bush/Rove playbook. Dirty? Yes. Underhanded? Yes. This is not the way to pass legislation, the only upside is showing the Republicans turnabout is fair play. That being said, we need to get rid of both the far left and far right wing nuts and elect some people who actually care about the country.
March 16, 2010 at 7:44 AM Report abuse
trisailer said...
The majority of Americans do want healthcare reform, Healtcare reform is necessary for the country's future. The repugs are using every proceedurial trick to block meaningful reform so why shouldn't the dems do the same to pass it. The sell out has already happened. The issue now is will the repugs get the final blow to the middle class or do we stop them.
March 16, 2010 at 7:47 AM Report abuse
PaulPortland said...
They can't get it though because the bill has no merits, they can't bribe it through so they want to make up some BS procedural trick. No. States should start passing nullification laws immediately if this BS drags the bloated, rotting carcass over the finish line.
March 16, 2010 at 7:58 AM Report abuse
trisailer said...
I happen to agree that single payer is the only real reform that will work for the future and I really could care less if this bill passes. It dosen't do anything for years and then it dosen't do enough and cost too much. The fact is though that that none of that really matters in the big picture. The big picture is about reversing the trend of divesting the middleclass of wealth and power. All you repug wanna-be's are playing right into their hands. You are defending the very people who seek to destroy you and this way of life.
March 16, 2010 at 8:03 AM Report abuse
Blazen said...
This bill will not stabilize cost increases on health care. It will increase taxes on average citizens, and people with health care will see a decrease in benefits. Why on earth would this be good for the majority of people? Obama is weakening our country with every new bill. Just a little side note . Saturday night I saw a headline on PPH site that read "Maine School Union wants an increase on taxes to pay for education." Yet after 4 comments this headline completely disappeared from the newspaper/ why was it taken down?
March 16, 2010 at 8:12 AM Report abuse
trisailer said...
While your government is dicking around with this thing that no one even understands that won't do what it was intended we are actually getting more choices about reducing our healthcare costs. Currently more insurance companies are offering exceptional deals for people to go overseas for treatment. The healthcare problem would go away tomorrow if Americans woke up to the choices that are available to them and they vote with their feet. If you are a small company you need to be exploring these plans if you have any hope to offer real healthcare to your employees.
March 16, 2010 at 8:15 AM Report abuse
Biddy said...
Notice Dennis Kucinich is holding his vote based on wanting a provision passed that states can set up their own single payer plan. The D's should pass that provision and get his vote. There is only one ultimate ending for health reform and that is a single payer plan. It would immediately remove profit and administration costs from the insurance system. It would allow the government to have a stronger role in lowering care and pharma costs. And it would simplify things greatly while providing health care to all. With Kucinich's idea states could begin implementing their own single payer plan. Pennsylvania has one pending. Canada's single payer system began province by province not top down.
March 16, 2010 at 8:22 AM Report abuse
eWFyZGJpcmQ%3D said...
common knowledge , tells us ,if we can't afford what we have now . then how in hell can we afford to insure everyone??besides all we need to do is cut out all these crazy law suits and huge awards and the cost of insurance will go down , and the cost of medical care will go down too, the democrats have blown the whole thing out of shape
March 16, 2010 at 8:29 AM Report abuse
MainenCrisis said...
Trisailor, yes the majority of americans want healthcare reform, mainley a reduction in cost bt the majority of americans DO NOT want this bill. Check the polls on both sides form the left and right sources and its overhelming that this bill needs to go away. The real issue with healthcare is local law. I post this almost daily and its ignored daily, the same healthcare plan in NH is 2x as much in Maine. Why wont Maine let us buy policies across state lines? Its cheaper!!!!
March 16, 2010 at 8:35 AM Report abuse
deceiver said...
Pass it.
March 16, 2010 at 8:37 AM Report abuse
DP said...
Nancy Pelosi has the wrong flag behind her seat....
March 16, 2010 at 8:44 AM Report abuse
crackhead said...
If the majority of Americans want this healths care bill than why are there so many payoffs,kickbacks and deals behind closed doors?
March 16, 2010 at 8:56 AM Report abuse
Daren said...
First they pass health care, then they take guns away. How, you say? Simple: No guns, affordable premiums. Gun owner, ridiculously high premium. So high in fact that gun owner will voluntarily surrender his firearms to keep his health care. Sounds too crazy to be true? You'll see. "They can have my Constution when they pry it from my cold, dead hand."
March 16, 2010 at 9:05 AM Report abuse
jude said...
Republican health care plan: Don't buy a computer or car; save your money for a colonoscopy.
March 16, 2010 at 9:05 AM Report abuse
outdoorsnut said...
Retiree is right! Pelosi is a danger to this country.
March 16, 2010 at 9:08 AM Report abuse
BSmart said...
The Truth???? Are the American people REALLY this stupid? This article, like all the other pro-Obama puff pieces about health totally ignores the most important reality. I see that the government will be subsidizing tens of millions of new insurance policies, I see that we'll be setting up a "pool" for high risk patients and I see loads and load of SPENDING. Ten TRILLION in fact, according to the non-partisan budget office. I see huge new taxes not only on the middle class but also on medical device makers and other medical suppliers. Guess what I DON'T SEE?? A single NICKLE of cost savings. OK, not a PENNY of cost savings. How will we, as a nation PAY for this useless monstrosity?? HOW??
March 16, 2010 at 9:24 AM Report abuse
trisailer said...
MSH is correct. Yes, you post daily saying that the difference between Maine and NH is because of the law. Well someone else post daily to tell you that the difference is that Maine has better consumer protections. What good is a policy if when you go to collect, your denied. Maine has a pretty good reputation for defending consumers. What your advocation is the same dod eat dog credit card nonsence that is responsable for a lot of this country's debt. Remember when Unum miscalculated the benefits they had to pay and tried to stick it to consumers. Who stood up for Mainers? Are you 100% sure that if someone you care about gets some expensive desease that your insurance company won't cut you loose?
March 16, 2010 at 9:24 AM Report abuse
trisailer said...
bsmart, I'm not worried about how to pay for it because we have plenty of money. We are spending a trillion per year for defense and CIA and NSA and HS and not a peep of complaint. In fact the repugs want to spend more of your money. When I start to hear the outcry about spending for guns and death I'll start to beleve were running out of money. What do you care anyway? Are you a rich guy? Do you even know what the bill is?
March 16, 2010 at 9:30 AM Report abuse
brightOne said...
Argument is over. Time to vote. When reform passes the trogs will hump it back to their caves and we can go forward. Thank you Mr. President for leading on this issue. It's about time we had a president that can lead the country in the right direction rather just leading boys and girls into foreign wars for oil.
March 16, 2010 at 9:44 AM Report abuse
brightOne said...
Argument is over. Time to vote. When reform passes the trogs will hump it back to their caves and we can go forward. Thank you Mr. President for leading on this issue. It's about time we had a president that can lead the country in the right direction rather just leading boys and girls into foreign wars for oil.
March 16, 2010 at 9:44 AM Report abuse
Josey+Wales said...
I can't wait until November to say bye bye to the democrats. They could care less what the people of this country think. The repubs are willing to pass reform, they (and a majority of the country) just do not want this piece of crap bill to pass.
March 16, 2010 at 9:59 AM Report abuse
henryelm said...
Put the public option back in, which DOES have the support of the majority of the american people, and then pass the thing. Isn't it funny how the thing lost support when the public option was taken out of the thing. Stay the course Dennis---hold out for public option or better yet single payer!!!! This bill is the worst of ALL possible combination--Mandated participation WITHOUT a public option and thus NO guarantee of "affordability". A bill made in heaven FOR the health industry. All this posturing is just political showmanship.
March 16, 2010 at 10:00 AM Report abuse
Pat said...
Anything to get the bill passed. If this happens there will be a lot of individuals in Washington seeking new jobs come Nov. Contrary to what the president thinks, the American people are not stupid and do know what they do and do not want and this bill is a perfect example. How about something for the economy first or is that too much for this idiot president to understand.
March 16, 2010 at 10:10 AM Report abuse
PaulPortland said...
Dems can have a max 37 no votes. There are 37 firm likely or leaning no. 3 firm yes. 15 leaning yes. 58 undecided. 1 more no and game over. http://thehill.com/homenews/house/85693-whip-watch-the-hills-survey-of-house-dems-positions-on-healthcare-
March 16, 2010 at 10:11 AM Report abuse
Pat said...
Anything to get the bill passed. If this happens there will be a lot of individuals in Washington seeking new jobs come Nov. Contrary to what the president thinks, the American people are not stupid and do know what they do and do not want and this bill is a perfect example. How about something for the economy first or is that too much for this idiot president to understand.
March 16, 2010 at 10:11 AM Report abuse
henryelm said...
Brown supports HEALTH care reform. just not this version of it Neither do I. Put public option back in, get rid of the nelson like giveaways and be done with it---Lacking that( and the votes) let it fail and blame the R's and the blue dogs for it;s failure come this campaign season and win enough votes to pass single payer.BOTH parties( and the media) seem to be way out of touch with what they think the american people 'want.. Come November they will have a chance to let leaders know, themselves.I;m guessing they will VOTE NO to constant obstruction and gridlock!!! BYE BYE R's
March 16, 2010 at 10:13 AM Report abuse
henryelm said...
Brown supports HEALTH care reform. just not this version of it Neither do I. Put public option back in, get rid of the nelson like giveaways and be done with it---Lacking that( and the votes) let it fail and blame the R's and the blue dogs for it;s failure come this campaign season and win enough votes to pass single payer.BOTH parties( and the media) seem to be way out of touch with what they think the american people 'want.. Come November they will have a chance to let leaders know, themselves.I;m guessing they will VOTE NO to constant obstruction and gridlock!!! BYE BYE R's
March 16, 2010 at 10:14 AM Report abuse
Chew said...
This has to be one of the most unethical concepts I have ever heard from an elected official. Regardless of my opinion about the proposed health bill, to take the time and effort to to make it so without a vote is a disgrace to all Americans.
March 16, 2010 at 10:16 AM Report abuse
Oak said...
Silly liberals demonizing the health insurance industry, seemingly unaware or not caring that the insurance industry is in favor of this bill. Why does insurance favor the bill? Wouldn't you favor a bill mandating that everyone purchase your goods/services or become a criminal? Yet these silly liberals still say that health insurance is the bad guy. That right there is just more proof that liberals confuse their hatred and envy for rational thought.
March 16, 2010 at 10:16 AM Report abuse
henryelm said...
I'm sick of a handfull of so called leaders continuously making political deals and holding america hostage for personal gain, to fill campaign chests to win the next election!!!! I'm sick of leaders holding america hostage!! We are PAYING them for this???
March 16, 2010 at 10:20 AM Report abuse
brightOne said...
The sound of pigs squealing....
March 16, 2010 at 10:20 AM Report abuse
Obamination said...
"It's more insider and process-oriented than most people want to know" Don't worry, Nancy, November's coming, and that will be more process oriented than you'll want to know, when you're voted to the sidelines. "We've got to pass the bill so we can find out what's in it!" lol "I'll get you my pretty and your little dog too." It's amazing how the communists in this forum can't be reformed no matter how ridiculous this gets. They must be living on Barney Frank's planet or revolving around the seventh planet named in his honor.
March 16, 2010 at 10:24 AM Report abuse
Oak said...
It's amazing how the communists in this forum can't be reformed no matter how ridiculous this gets. I see Communists. Walking around like regular people. They only see what they want to see. They don't know they're Communists.
March 16, 2010 at 10:29 AM Report abuse
brightOne said...
This debate has been going on for decades and you geniuses are all of a sudden going to figure out how to do it correctly on the eve of the vote? NEWSFLASH! This is just the opening salvo and the debate will continue forever as to who gets what and how much and so on and talk show idiots will have a great time. But the days of leaving people out on the curb to die because they lacked access to health care are OVER and the GOP will go down in history as the party that preferred to protect special interests rather than the people they're supposed to represent.
March 16, 2010 at 10:31 AM Report abuse
trisailer said...
Non-the-less folks, this is the process we have and it looks pretty messy sometimes espacally when it is done out in the open. All of this stuff has gone on since we declared independence it's just been hidden. What we are about to decide here is weather we keep the course that the neocon's gave us of unbridled greed and economic hijinks or we give the middleclass a fighting chance. That's what this is about. Healthcare has little to do with it. For the past 8 years the repugs have used fear to get the public to go along with divesting it's wealth and it worked pretty good. Do we continue to sell out so a handful of rich guys can become richer or do we spread the wealth around a little?
March 16, 2010 at 10:36 AM Report abuse
trisailer said...
That's funny Oak. You see communist ( I doubt you even know what that is) and I see fools who advocate a nonsystem of nongovernment that only exist in Haiti and Somalia. I'm starting to feel embarrased for you.
March 16, 2010 at 10:40 AM Report abuse
Haiku said...
New World Order democrats show their true colors during this health care revolutionary debate. They're into censorship. They're behaving like dictators. They're disrespectful of the lack of support from mainstream America. They're so bad, I would not be surprised if Pelosi's New World Order democrats includes bipartisan radicals possibly having been party to that horrible demolition by terror on 9/11/01 -- to do what? To create "political change"? That is NOT "change we can believe in". Pelosi deserves to be investigated, not create Marxist health care "change".
March 16, 2010 at 10:47 AM Report abuse
jude said...
So, Obamination, how much do you have in your health care savings account? Are you shopping around for best deal on colonoscopties? As a person opposed to socialism/communism and believing in individual responsibility, I hope you don't get sick unless you're making a 7 figure salary and can afford to pay your own way. Those are the people the Republican party represents. The other Republican voters are chumps conned by Republican pandering on social issues.
March 16, 2010 at 10:47 AM Report abuse
notspot said...
"The repubs are willing to pass reform..." Yes...They've proven that each time they hold majority.
March 16, 2010 at 10:49 AM Report abuse
Oak said...
trisailor - Limited government is not the same as anarchy. Limited government means that there are things that the government does not do. Your comparison to Haiti and Somalia is a straw man. As far as communism goes, it's just another flavor of statism that has been implemented under other guises like socialism and fascism, the essence of which is an unlimited government. That means that there is nothing that government should not do. If you should feel embarrassment for anyone it should be yourself for failing to understand such simple concepts.
March 16, 2010 at 10:50 AM Report abuse
notspot said...
Redundancy at it’s finest.
March 16, 2010 at 11:05 AM Report abuse
PaulPortland said...
So much for cheap government overhead and efficiency. $10-20 billion to the IRS and HHS to administer BO Care. These expenses are not budgeted, of course. CBO has not completed an estimate of all of the discretionary costs that would be associated with the legislation. Those costs would depend on future appropriations and are not included in today’s estimate of the direct spending and revenue effects of the bill. As indicated in CBO’s earlier estimate, such costs would probably include an estimated $5 billion to $10 billion over 10 years for administrative costs of the Internal Revenue Service and at least a similar amount for expenses of the Department of Health and Human Services. CBO has also identified at least $50 billion in specified and estimated authorizations of future discretionary spending for a number of grant programs and other provisions of the legislation; whether some or all of those costs would be incurred would depend on future appropriation legislation.
March 16, 2010 at 11:08 AM Report abuse
Oak said...
PaulPortland - With regards to the CBO one must keep in mind that they are required to take everything at face value. So when disingenuous politicians say that something will cost x dollars, knowing full well that it will cost more, the CBO must use x in their calculations. CBO calculations are by themselves a lesson on why you should NOT take anything at face value. And you'll notice that those who support government intervention in health care are those who take things at face value. I can't decided if they are foolish or stupid, but I'm leaning towards the latter.
March 16, 2010 at 11:19 AM Report abuse
xcalibur1066 said...
New York Daily News where the editors, urging the president to pull the plug on his health care overhaul, point out: Just one in four voters supports the reform bill as written; half want Congress to start over. Compare that with the popular support other major pieces of social legislation enjoyed before passage, like welfare reform (68%), Medicare (63%) and civil rights (60%). Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.) said, “there is a lot of ‘arm-twisting’ to attract votes, adding that leadership officials are asking members what they want in the yet-to-be-released reconciliation package to secure their votes.“
March 16, 2010 at 11:21 AM Report abuse
trisailer said...
It's no surprise that the public is wavering and that this bill does no enjoy wider support when you consider that the people who do not want this have pulled out all the stops to prevent it from happening. Americans are sheep and they respond to every misinformation that is put on the airways to convince them to vote agains their own self interest. Look at the record. Do you morons really believe that the people who are hell bent on stopping this have your best interest in mind? Did they have you in mind when they just about wrecked the economy? Yep, just like sheep.
March 16, 2010 at 11:28 AM Report abuse
ModerateOne said...
I love it. People are still asking "Why can't we buy insurance across state lines", and then blaming Democrats. For the umpteenth time, it is because the insurance industry has an anti trust exemption. There are no uniform national laws, just an assortment of confusing state laws, many written by insurance companies. To sell insurance in a state you must be licensed in that state. This creates red tape and confusion, and drives consumer costs sky high. Which is exactly why the health insurance companies have fought to preserve this anti trust exemption. Republicans have helped the insurance industry every step of the way. Obama wants to repeal the anti trust laws, opening up more competition.
March 16, 2010 at 11:30 AM Report abuse
notspot said...
DEATH PANELS!!!
March 16, 2010 at 11:31 AM Report abuse
xcalibur1066 said...
"There are no uniform national laws, just an assortment of confusing state laws, many written by insurance companies. " Wrong.. look up ERISA
March 16, 2010 at 11:39 AM Report abuse
Oak said...
Insurance companies support this bill. Insurance companies support this bill. Insurance companies support this bill. Insurance companies support this bill. Insurance companies support this bill. Insurance companies support this bill. Insurance companies support this bill. Insurance companies support this bill. Insurance companies support this bill. Insurance companies support this bill. Insurance companies support this bill. Insurance companies support this bill. Insurance companies support this bill. Insurance companies support this bill. Insurance companies support this bill. Insurance companies support this bill.
March 16, 2010 at 11:39 AM Report abuse
ModerateOne said...
Oak, now that's funny. But, not worth the time. Unless it's your employer's time.
March 16, 2010 at 11:44 AM Report abuse
xcalibur1066 said...
Big Pharma companies support this bill. Big Pharma companies support this bill. Big Pharma companies support this bill. Big Pharma companies support this bill. Big Pharma companies support this bill. Big Pharma companies support this bill. Big Pharma companies support this bill. Big Pharma companies support this bill. Big Pharma companies support this bill. Big Pharma companies support this bill. Big Pharma companies support this bill. Big Pharma companies support this bill. Big Pharma companies support this bill. Big Pharma companies support this bill. Big Pharma companies support this bill. Big Pharma companies support this bill.
March 16, 2010 at 11:45 AM Report abuse
Oak said...
If this is a problem created by insurance companies, and insurance companies are the villains, then why do they support this bill? Hello? You leftists who have an emotional reaction to the word "profit", are you aware of this? Let me repeat - the insurance companies support this bill. Do you understand what that means? It means that the insurance companies will reap huge PROFITS as tens of millions of Americans are required by law to purchase their product. And you accuse the right of catering to the insurance companies? Are you stupid? Really, are you just plain stupid? Or are you such a puppet of your easily manipulated emotions that your brain has ceased to function?
March 16, 2010 at 11:46 AM Report abuse
xcalibur1066 said...
Interesting that the people who oppose the insurance companies and Big Pharma are supporting a bill that was written mostly by the insurance and Big Pharma lobbyists.
March 16, 2010 at 11:47 AM Report abuse
notspot said...
Insurance companies support the bill by spending million to lobby aganist it...Insurance companies support the bill by spending million to lobby aganist it...Insurance companies support the bill by spending million to lobby aganist it...Insurance companies support the bill by spending million to lobby aganist it...Insurance companies support the bill by spending million to lobby aganist it...Insurance companies support the bill by spending million to lobby aganist it...Insurance companies support the bill by spending million to lobby aganist it...Insurance companies support the bill by spending million to lobby aganist it...
March 16, 2010 at 11:47 AM Report abuse
xcalibur1066 said...
"Insurance companies support the bill by spending million to lobby aganist it..." haha.. funny and wrong. K Street spending is way over what it was in the past. K street only lobbies the party in power. Why would the lobbyists spend money on the R's? They can't do anything. The D's are holding this mess up not the R's.
March 16, 2010 at 12:04 PM Report abuse
Oak said...
spot - here's a list of all members of the 111th Congress (plus Obama) who have received money for their candidate committees or leadership PACs from the health insurance industry's PACs and employees. If what you say is correct then you should expect to see all Rs at the top and all Ds at the bottom, since the insurance industry is so hell bent on killing this legislation.
March 16, 2010 at 12:05 PM Report abuse
xcalibur1066 said...
Big bad insurance companies certainly wouldn't want 30 million new customers that are paid for by the government would they? The 85% claims payment does nothing to keep down costs. In fact it will encourage higher cost and higher premiums. The insurance companies love this bill.
March 16, 2010 at 12:06 PM Report abuse
PaulPortland said...
Oak, I agree. $20 billion for the IRS and HHS is just more admin and overhead on top of their existing programs. Insurance companies will also add to their overhead to comply with 2700 pages of mandates. The CBO score for the Senate bill suffered from double counting, unrealistic cost estimates and exclusion of costs they wanted to ignore. BO Care increases the deficit, increases private insurance premiums and pushes huge new expenses to the states. It also is insolvent in 30 years without a bailout.
March 16, 2010 at 12:09 PM Report abuse
PaulPortland said...
Webmaster, WTF is up with double posting when HTML tags are present? This isn't 1995. Why do I have to hand code my posts to make them look readable? Did money change hands for this work or did they just throw you a crack rock?
March 16, 2010 at 12:20 PM Report abuse
Biddy said...
Oak. Your concept of government is even worse than what we have. "Limited Government". "Limited" to what? What you and some others think it should be "limited" to? Even what is stated in the Constitution has and is expanded to the optional by both conservatives and liberals. One can construe the Constitution to limiting defense of the American mainland. That would instantly reduce our military to a fraction of it's size and cut foreign aid tenfold. But I don't see you limited government people shouting for that. Government in this country is about protecting the interests of the empowered. It throws crumbs to the rest to keep them in line. When the crumbs get expensive they leave the peons to die. The U.S.A. claims the moral high ground but in many ways is as immoral as it gets.
March 16, 2010 at 12:21 PM Report abuse
notspot said...
Comment Section...Populated by geeks!
March 16, 2010 at 12:21 PM Report abuse
brightOne said...
xcalibur1066 said..."Big Pharma companies support this bill." If this were true then GOPukes would support too since they have their heads way up the poop shoots of these corporations.
March 16, 2010 at 12:27 PM Report abuse
Biddy said...
And how many conservatives have supported the single payer proposals floating in Congress? That would eliminate the role of big pharma and insurance and allow government to control pricing of health care. To their credit several conservatives supported Kucinich's state single payer option proposal. But only on the basis of states' rights not the single payer model.
March 16, 2010 at 12:27 PM Report abuse
Oak said...
Biddy - Limited government means following the Constitution. You know, that quaint old document that lists specific powers to the federal government and leaves the rest to the States or the People? Yeah, that one. That both the left and the right have ignored it and expanded government does not make them right. It just means they can say "But they do it too!" like spoiled children when they get called on it. As far a government controlled pricing goes, it doesn't work. Know what will happen if the government controls the price of medical services? Above average people will find different more lucrative career paths, leaving medical work to the average or below average. Is that what you want? Apparently so.
March 16, 2010 at 12:34 PM Report abuse
Biddy said...
Democrats were also responsible for the failure of the Snowe-Dorgan reimportation bill which would have reduced pharma costs by over 35 billion. Both parties have courted pharma companies because they are the most profitable in America.
March 16, 2010 at 12:34 PM Report abuse
xcalibur1066 said...
"If this were true then GOPukes would support too since they have their heads way up the poop shoots of these corporations." Really.. please show me a portion of this bill that restricts anything. " the White House agreed to oppose any congressional efforts to use the government's leverage to bargain for lower drug prices or import drugs from Canada -- and also agreed not to pursue Medicare rebates or shift some drugs from Medicare Part B to Medicare Part D, which would cost Big Pharma billions in reduced reimbursements. In exchange, the Pharmaceutical Researchers and Manufacturers Association (PhRMA) agreed to cut $80 billion in projected costs to taxpayers and senior citizens over ten years. Or, as the memo says: "Commitment of up to $80 billion, but not more than $80 billion."
March 16, 2010 at 12:38 PM Report abuse
notspot said...
Doctors now are "above average"... thank god they're not elite. But doctors are in it for the money...
March 16, 2010 at 12:42 PM Report abuse
xcalibur1066 said...
"And how many conservatives have supported the single payer proposals floating in Congress?" That flies in the face of conservative principles. Try these simple fixes : 1) Remove interstate barriers and allow nationwide competition. 2) Require federal and state programs to reimburse at the rate of the cost of service so that private pays do not subsidize state and federal programs. 3) Require that state and federal existing programs are not under enrolled. 3 fixes and you are done.
March 16, 2010 at 12:43 PM Report abuse
xcalibur1066 said...
Biddy wrong : Pharma is 3rd. Med Products and services is 4th Insurance: Life, Health (stock) is 22nd So you can see, liberals are "attacking" the wrong villain. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/performers/industries/profits/
March 16, 2010 at 12:47 PM Report abuse
Oak said...
I see spot has yet to wrap that speck of an intellect of his around the difference between elite and elitist.
March 16, 2010 at 12:49 PM Report abuse
Biddy said...
Oak. That red herring of scaling people into categories is a non starter with me. It supports the old Puritanical concept that demonizes people according to their birth status. There are many categorized as "average" who would probably flourish in the right environment and would be more than adequate practitioners. And even if what you said were true, Canada has many fine doctors who accept the limits of their system. In fact Canada has longer life expectancy than the U.S. and is ahead of us in outcomes in many categories, all at lower cost. The present system really just rewards greed. And the outcomes are still less than spectacular.
March 16, 2010 at 1:11 PM Report abuse
Biddy said...
So Xcalibur the true reasoning of conservatives is to put their "principles" above the well being of the American people? All of the fixes you mentioned have been examined. They won't reduce the uninsured population of the U.S.. They won't reduce cost significantly. And they still maintain an atmosphere where 6-7 companies control insurance prices.
March 16, 2010 at 1:15 PM Report abuse
xcalibur1066 said...
"The present system really just rewards greed." The current bills in Congress will reward it even more.
March 16, 2010 at 1:16 PM Report abuse
Oak said...
That red herring of scaling people into categories is a non starter with me. It supports the old Puritanical concept that demonizes people according to their birth status. Perhaps I should have been more specific. I would rather my doctor possess above average intelligence and drive, as opposed to being some well intentioned dimwit. Results matter, not intentions, and in my experience the desire for profit (you'd call it greed) yields better results than a show of altruism. Price controls on health care will result in more well intentioned dimwits and fewer people with intelligence and drive seeking a career in medicine. Sure, it's not in the bill in those specific words, but it's human nature. As far as "principles" go, the only principle I see from the left is "anything you can do government can do better, government can do anything better than you. Yes it can! Yes it can!"
March 16, 2010 at 1:31 PM Report abuse
trisailer said...
I would be happy if we go back to the level of regulation and taxation that we had before Reagan. The regulations that were put in place after the great depression were working. The level of taxation was working. Bill Gates had a good idea and he should be amply rewarded but come on 70 billion for a idea who's time had come. All this derivative and subprime nonsence was a clever way to produce wealth from thin air. It's all paper shuffling and not real. Humans are far too clever and in our greedy culture that overvalues wealth, regulation is the only thing that gives the average person a fighting chance.
March 16, 2010 at 1:33 PM Report abuse
xcalibur1066 said...
Biddy : By enrolling more people in existing programs, you automatically reduce the number of uninsured. Again, you are wrong. State governments currently dictate the cost of insurance. Again, you are wrong. The "good" of our nation has always been rewarding the productive. Every homeless person in America qualifies for an existing state run health insurance program. Every child in a poor to lower middle class family qualifies for either a state or federal health insurance program. Just because people choose to not sign up for it doesn't make it unavailable. You compare the life spans of other countries with ours and immediately place the blame on the health care system. You completely leave out the violence, driving, drugs and other non-health system related reasons for these stats. Of course you do, you only hear what the liberals are telling you. Too bad for you. But don't drag the rest of us into your delusion.
March 16, 2010 at 1:34 PM Report abuse
xcalibur1066 said...
Most nations with a national plan are actually a 2 tiered system. The wealthy have private insurance and privately run hospitals to take care of the major stuff. They use the public system for the routine stuff. Why do the proponents of a national plan never mention that?
March 16, 2010 at 1:38 PM Report abuse
trisailer said...
Wrong again Oak. The AMA wants you to believe that there is some special about being a doctor and they artifically control the numbers and the services that can be performed to keep the prices high and the profession exclusive. Everybody knows that the nurses are the ones who really matter. Doctors are no different than any professional and with computer diagnostics these days we really should be looking at taking the load off them. Eliminate prescriptions and medical costs will drop 20% overnight.
March 16, 2010 at 1:40 PM Report abuse
lewis said...
What else can we expect from Democrats anything but transparancy and afraid to vote openly. This is the kind of hope and change they were talking about.They are socialist and want more government control and they are the same way in the state house.Bring on the November elections so we can vote them all out.
March 16, 2010 at 1:44 PM Report abuse
Oak said...
You completely leave out the violence, driving, drugs and other non-health system related reasons for these stats. Most of the leading causes of death in this country are a result of lifestyle choices, not bad medicine. We're a country full of fat slobs who slowly kill themselves through poor diet and inactivity. I think that in the back of their minds liberals know this, but they think feel that government can cure that too.
March 16, 2010 at 1:44 PM Report abuse
Oak said...
trisailer - I don't see how that post refutes anything I said, especially when I agree with most of it.
March 16, 2010 at 1:56 PM Report abuse
henryelm said...
You randian followers are complete fools. Loncoln-You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time. ... George W. Bush -You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on.
March 16, 2010 at 2:04 PM Report abuse
xcalibur1066 said...
The FDA controls which drugs are available by prescription and which ones are OTC. One thing I will agree with in Canada, lots of things that require a prescription in the USA is available OTC there. See, the root of most of the problems are government interference. Why add more government? You can blame lobbyists and CEO's all you want, but a lobbyists or a CEO never cast a vote in Congress.
March 16, 2010 at 2:05 PM Report abuse
xcalibur1066 said...
"Barack Obama has said he will not campaign for any Democratic congressmen who fails to support health care reform." Nuff said..
March 16, 2010 at 2:19 PM Report abuse
brightOne said...
The first shot in the reform movement must be aimed squarely at the insurance companies because they are the ones that have been resisting it the most. After this version passes we must move on to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY as well as a whole host of other cost cutting measures including, clamping down on FRAUD and ABUSE, PRICE GOUGING by hospitals, doctors and big pharma, and MEDICAL MALPRACTICE. That's right, some of you fat lazy chain-smoking alcoholics are going to have to change your lifestyle. Oh my!!!
March 16, 2010 at 2:20 PM Report abuse
xcalibur1066 said...
Seems Ms. Pelosi was against this type of politics when the R's tried to use it on a much, much smaller bill. http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Pelosi-Slaughter-went-to-court-against-GOPs-self-executing-rule-in-2005---87773712.html
March 16, 2010 at 2:25 PM Report abuse
xcalibur1066 said...
BrightOne falls for the old "Nothing unites like a common enemy" routine. Mr. Obama counted on your lack of knowledge. I am sure he appreciates it. I guess you completely ignore pharma and medical services. They take more of your money in profit than insurance companies do, way more. But we don't want to look there do we?
March 16, 2010 at 2:27 PM Report abuse
henryelm said...
The FDA has turned its back on it;s responsibility to regulate( AND protect consumers), just like the the bank regulators and wall street "regulators" did. They COLLUDE with those they regulate. There is a revolving door between the FDA and the pharmacuetical companies, just like the revolving door between the financial sector and treasury and regulators. Doctors get a commission and trips to luxurious resorts by pharmacueticals to PUSH their products. They have ALL become a moral(and medical) hazard to patients and consumers.
March 16, 2010 at 2:32 PM Report abuse
Oak said...
X - I think the idea is to incrementally put the insurance companies out of business with a goal of the government being the third party payer for everyone. Then the government, being the only payer of medical services, will "solve" the issue of price by dictating to pharma and medical services what they are allowed to charge. Not that price controls have ever worked in the history of mankind, but we can make it work this time! Together we can!
March 16, 2010 at 2:38 PM Report abuse
trisailer said...
Sorry Oak if I misunderstood you to imply that doctors were somehow more special than the rest of us. I know people tire of me using the Thailand example but 12 years ago the king opened 3 new medical schools and created a process to recruit exceptional high school students. The medical school requirements are the same as in the US. There are so many doctors in Thailand now that there is one on every corner. The average income of a doctor in Thailand is $45,000. This is a huge part of the cost on medical care in the US is that people are not using the technology to do some basic self diagnosis using their home computer. I figure my odds of figuring out what's wrong with me using WebMD are better than 3.5 mins with the doc in a box.
March 16, 2010 at 3:16 PM Report abuse
trisailer said...
The problem with some of you is that your thinking too much. The fact is that 10's of thousands of our fellow Americans are dying needlessly. It seems to me we stop the dying first and figure out the rest of it later. How can I live in a country that places such a low value on human life? Most of the people who are dying are poor and that is doubly wrong. It is up to the educated (elites) to look out for the uneducated and helpless. If we can't do that than this country is not worth saving as far as I'm concerned.
March 16, 2010 at 3:21 PM Report abuse
Steve0 said...
trisailer: You make the point that it is wrong that poor people are dying. Poor people in other countries are also dying. Does our moral obligation to help people stop at our national borders?
March 16, 2010 at 3:32 PM Report abuse
brightOne said...
trisailer said..."The problem with some of you is that your thinking too much." Ahhhhh ha ha ha h ah hah LOL get ready tri, the trogs are going to blast you for this line! .... Here's a list of countries that have some form of universal health care - Afghanistan*, Argentina, Austria, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Cuba, Costa Rica, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iraq*, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Oman, Portugal, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Sweden, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Ukraine and the United Kingdom...*Universal health coverage provided by United States war funding ... So if the reform bill is not for you there are still some countries you can move yo that DO NOT provide any form of universal coverage and that includes ALL OF AFRICA. Good luck in the CONGO trogs.
March 16, 2010 at 3:33 PM Report abuse
Biddy said...
SteveO. Our moral obligation is to help our own first and if any is left over to help others. It does stop at out borders if we don't help our own first. And I'm sorry but those who believe differently on that ideal aren't really Americans. If they support giving sustenance to other nations while their fellow citizens suffer and die they don't deserve to be called an American.
March 16, 2010 at 3:39 PM Report abuse
ACHILLES said...
Trisailer - shut the he)) up about Thailand already.
March 16, 2010 at 3:56 PM Report abuse
trisailer said...
I agree that we help our own first and that we protect our own. If we stopped meddling in the affairs of other countries we could easily afford to provide for our own countrymen. Almost (here it comes) a trillion per year for defense and what do we have to show for it?
March 16, 2010 at 3:58 PM Report abuse
xcalibur1066 said...
BrightOne still thinks the current set of bill in Congress will lead to national health care. Man, what has brightOne been drinking. Riddle me this : If this bill passes who many people will die in the 4 years between time of passage and the time these so-called uninsured (who ALL qualify for existing programs) become insured?
March 16, 2010 at 3:59 PM Report abuse
trisailer said...
The best way to help people outside our borders is to be a good example of a compassionate, humain country. People around the world like us for the most part, except for the killing and conquering part. We had a reputation for fairness and justice up untill a few years ago.
March 16, 2010 at 4:04 PM Report abuse
brightOne said...
"Today we are engaged in a final, all-out battle between Communistic Atheism and Christianity." -- Joseph McCarthy. Bow down before your master trogs.
March 16, 2010 at 4:16 PM Report abuse
notspot said...
"Today we are engaged in a final, all-out battle between Communistic Atheism and Christianity." I missed the ending...Who won?
March 16, 2010 at 4:22 PM Report abuse
Biddy said...
Achilles. Why should he? Or for that matter why should any of us shut up about places that have exceeded our own systems? Does it irk you that much that someone else has actually figured something out that has taken us decades to and we're still tiptoeing around it?
March 16, 2010 at 4:23 PM Report abuse
PaulPortland said...
Nobody should fall for the insuring 31 million lie at this point. The Senate doesn't even believe it. Want to know how? They budgeted $36 billion in revenue from fines for not being insured. The people who get added to Medicaid get better insurance. Everybody else gets higher taxes and higher premiums to pay for it. If you can't afford the new inflexible, higher priced insurance you are worse off because the IRS will fine you. Medicare recipients will see a reduction in care due to the $400 billion in cuts.
March 16, 2010 at 4:44 PM Report abuse
brightOne said...
"notspot said...Who won?" ... I think the Atheists will be ahead by a nose when they hang the pope by his balls for sexual abuse: http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100316/wl_time/08599197230600
March 16, 2010 at 4:48 PM Report abuse
MSH said...
All this chatter from people whose knickers are in a twist. All the repugs can do is howl, "We're gonna' git ya', we're gonna git ya' in November"...Well, let's suppose the dems lose the House and some more seats in the Senate. BIG WHOOP! Obama's still POTUS and any attempts to repeal what health care reform IS passed, first has to make it through the Senate and than after a Presidential VETO, has to be passed by a 2/3 majority! READ the hand writing on the WALL! After November, all you're going to get to do is howl, "We're gonna' git ya,' we're gonna' git ya' in 2012....yup! Sure is a looong time to keep your knickers in a twist.....enjoy!
March 16, 2010 at 4:59 PM Report abuse
Player said...
A truly despicable result if it happens. Comrade Pelosi has shown who is un-American, and it is her.
March 16, 2010 at 5:42 PM Report abuse
xcalibur1066 said...
"than after a Presidential " Your grasp of the English language is only surpassed by your ignorance.
March 16, 2010 at 5:42 PM Report abuse
xcalibur1066 said...
Seattle Times editorial: But the longer the fight goes on, the more it feels that the timing is all wrong. The economy is wounded. Employers are hurting. The time to think about loading employers with new burdens is when they are strong. Not now… New York Daily News : He shouldn’t waste his energy. Not with unemployment justifiably the nation’s top concern and the possibility of a double-dip recession still looming. Remember how Obama said, in his State of the Union reboot, “Jobs must be our No. 1 focus in 2010″? Well, apparently he doesn’t. Cincinnati Enquirer: Now, despite the deep reservations of a majority of Americans, congressional leaders plan to ram through their proposal this week – bypassing normal congressional procedures. It is a distressing prospect.
March 16, 2010 at 5:49 PM Report abuse
ACHILLES said...
It's amazing that the same lefties who constantly attacked Bush personally, called him a stupid chimp, cowboy etc. believe that their messiah is a wise sage, a man of unquestionable intellect. Ponder the following quote and try to imagine the MSM talking heads wetting themselves if W had made it. OBAMA: How many people are getting' insurance through their jobs right now? Raise your hands? A'right. Well, a lot of those folks, your employer, it's estimated, would see premiums fall by as much as 3,000%, which means they could give you a RAISE! Is he really this stupid or does he believe that the average american is an imbecile. Remember that Obama refused to release ANY of his college transcripts and Bush was trained as a fighter pilot.
March 16, 2010 at 5:56 PM Report abuse
tenacity said...
sound like impeachment of two representative may be in order...they try this and they have broken the law...ie impeach, it would save us 6 month from flushing these turds down the drain... Any one who voted for these M0R0NS need to be at the front of the pack to get rid of them....they lied to you folks, they don't care what we think - they're just lining their pockets with graft. Amazing you don't see as many bumper stickers for them anymore...hmmm
March 16, 2010 at 6:14 PM Report abuse
tiepair said...
Wow, Democrats really don't want any support from Moderates next election do they? I love how they stressed bi-partisan efforts in the elections, but it's been far from it, this whole time.
March 16, 2010 at 8:44 PM Report abuse
DTOM said...
How Democrats may 'deem' ObamaCare into law, without voting.-- We're not sure American schools teach civics any more, but once upon a time they taught that under the U.S. Constitution a bill had to pass both the House and Senate to become law. -- Yes, self-executing rules have been used in the past, but as the Congressional Research Service put it in a 2006 paper, "Originally, this type of rule was used to expedite House action in disposing of Senate amendments to House-passed bills." They've also been used for amendments such as to a 1998 bill that "would have permitted the CIA to offer employees an early-out retirement program"—but never before to elide a vote on the entire fundamental legislation. We have entered a political wonderland, where the rules are whatever Democrats say they are. Mrs. Pelosi and the White House are resorting to these abuses because their bill is so unpopular that a majority even of their own party doesn't want to vote for it. -- WSJ article, 3-16
March 16, 2010 at 8:46 PM Report abuse
DTOM said...
Fence-sitting Members are being threatened with primary challengers, a withdrawal of union support and of course ostracism. Pelosi isn't bothering to defend the merits anymore, saying instead last week that "we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it." Or rather, "deeming" to have passed it. - same WSJ article
March 16, 2010 at 8:50 PM Report abuse
brightOne said...
Howling troglodyte GOPukers will crawl back to their bomb shelters, bible in hand, wondering...how did we get here? Answer: fear, hate, ignorance and greed.
March 16, 2010 at 9:14 PM Report abuse
EllenW said...
Quote from Norm Ornstein: "Any veteran observer of Congress is used to the rampant hypocrisy over the use of parliamentary procedures that shifts totally from one side to the other as a majority moves to minority status, and vice versa. But I can't recall a level of feigned indignation nearly as great as what we are seeing now from congressional Republicans and their acolytes at the Wall Street Journal, and on blogs, talk radio, and cable news. It reached a ridiculous level of misinformation and disinformation."
March 16, 2010 at 9:27 PM Report abuse
AXeL said...
Patently unconstitutional and will not pass a Constitutional challenge. Stop with the "Republicans did it" crap. They NEVER used this to make sweeping social changes in the country or co-opt a SIXTH of the American Economy. Passing this bill in this manner will cause massive unrest and sweeping changes in politics as voter anger boils over. Pelosi will attempt this at her and her party's peril.
March 16, 2010 at 11:41 PM Report abuse
sandman21 said...
Vote every one of them out. They have no idear what we are going through. And the local officals are not helping, vote them out to. Recall Oboma.
March 16, 2010 at 11:53 PM Report abuse
AXeL said...
Thanks go to Xcal and Oak for standing against the shrill tide of screeching liberal comment posters who, like Pelosi, support this rotten idea without actually going on record to do it. I'd like one liberal here to come out and actually say that passing a massive bill like this into law without an actual vote is a good thing...and then I want them to say that Republicans can do the same thing when they are in the majority again. That's right, we will outlaw abortion and gay marriage, abolish the tax code and make our own sweeping social changes ALL WITHOUT TAKING A SINGLE VOTE ON THE ISSUES.
March 16, 2010 at 11:54 PM Report abuse
sandman21 said...
Biddy, Take off uour blinders. BOTH parties have sc8wed us over.Do not be fooled by one or the other. Bush and Polise look the same to me.Vote them all out. Who is behind the sales tax increass for Maine, NOT tea bagers.
March 16, 2010 at 11:58 PM Report abuse
brightOne said...
"Republicans can do the same thing when they are in the majority again. That's right, we will outlaw abortion and gay marriage, abolish the tax code and make our own sweeping social changes ALL WITHOUT TAKING A SINGLE VOTE ON THE ISSUES." ... now I know why the US is so ghucked up.
March 17, 2010 at 7:42 AM Report abuse
trisailer said...
Don't worry AXeL the repugs would do exactually that if they though they could get away with it. The risk is less for the dems because most people want something done about healthcare. It's nice thought that you showed your hand and the hand of most repugs. Now we know that you don't care what happens to the country as long as gay people can't marry and abortion is outlawed. I'm assuming that you'll throw in school prayer and uniforms as well. This is exactly why we have to win this fight. Stop the country from being destroyed because bible thumpers are homophobic.
March 17, 2010 at 8:18 AM Report abuse
PaulPortland said...
BO Care lost more ground today. People really hate it. Washington (CNN) -- Five more House Democrats said Tuesday that they will vote against Senate health care legislation, which puts opponents of reform just 11 votes shy of the 216 needed to prevent President Obama from scoring a major victory on his top domestic priority. An ongoing CNN analysis shows that opposition in the House to the Senate health care plan has reached 205 members.
March 17, 2010 at 9:40 AM Report abuse
DeathCultt said...
Technically it would Be God that is homophobic, " not that homophobic is and actual word or homophobia and actual illness." The word Homophobic was a word created by nazi liberals.
March 17, 2010 at 11:53 AM Report abuse
JazzBox said...
The only difference between this Congress and any other Congress is that they're doing this right in front of our eyes, and pointing out the process, flawed though it is. It's called transparency, which is the first step to accountability, which was a major campaign theme. Seems to me he's making good on his word in that regard. As to the tiny, minute little details that everybody gets all worked up about... they are not as important as the speakerboxes would like you to believe. They are emotional issues, arrived at through extended "logic" (I use the term loosely), that have no real basis in the actual verbiage contained in the bill.
March 17, 2010 at 12:04 PM Report abuse
DeathCultt said...
LOL good luck @ outlawing abortion....................
March 17, 2010 at 12:22 PM Report abuse
MudDoctor said...
Oak said.... "Results matter, not intentions, and in my experience the desire for profit (you'd call it greed) yields better results than a show of altruism." Desire for profits in medicine does not yield better results. Procedures, tests and surgery are the most profitable things in medicine. For instance the PSA (prostate) exam is almost universally done for men over 40. Research shows your death rate is increased by getting tested regularly. The doctor who invented the PSA exam in 1971 now recommends against it. In spite of this evidence, doctors continue to administer the test which leads to false positives which leads to more expensive and dangerous procedures. More profit, more dead patients. There's your free market in the medical system for you.
March 17, 2010 at 12:36 PM Report abuse
Mainedog said...
Section. 7. Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States: If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively.
March 17, 2010 at 2:22 PM Report abuse
grumblestilt said...
What does the Constitution say about filibusters in the Senate? Oh yeah - nothing. Does that make filibustering "patently unconstitutional"? Does that make those Republicans into horrific villains? Funny how the right wing is shrieking here that the left is being shrill: It's just another way of shrieking. It's like when Talk Radio talks about race - saying "the Democrats are fixated on race - it's all they can think about - and that's why they are the racists." Look - people are trying to get something done for once: wow!
March 17, 2010 at 2:24 PM Report abuse
DeathCultt said...
It would seem anyone whom complains about another posting daily is not unlke the person posting daily. No life, No job and like summer vacation......NO CLASS.
March 17, 2010 at 2:35 PM Report abuse
Mainedog said...
grumblestilt, do you even know what a filibuster is? The filibuster prevents the house or senate leader from calling a vote so the bill never gets the REQUIRED up and down vote! There is nothing unconstitutional about it, hell the filibuster has been used since the country began! Yes even by the founding fathers, you know the gents who wrote the constitution! The deem as pass rule is what’s unconstitutional in the way the house dems want to use it not the rule on it's own. The deem as passed rule has been used in the past on bills that already had a vote and passed. The deem as passed rule was used only to add amendments to those bills nothing more! NEVER has it been used as required by the constitution for an up and down vote on any bill! When asked about the constitutionality even Nobama won't answer the question because he know what the answer is!
March 17, 2010 at 4:00 PM Report abuse
RickD said...
There are a couple things you can take to the bank, the first is that the Democratic party is going to ram the healthcare takeover bill down the throats of taxpayers whether they like it or not and they don't care about the process of making that happen. Second, that the day it is signed into law there will be legal challenges filed.
March 17, 2010 at 4:07 PM Report abuse
SacoSam said...
"Majority of Americans want government run health-care.." Plain BS. If that was the case the D's who are listening to their constituents (the American people) wouldn't be concerned about the backlash from voting for the Senate bill.
March 17, 2010 at 6:08 PM Report abuse
DTOM said...
All one needs to do is watch this to see how blatant the hypocrisy is : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_1Zr4B_j9Y&feature=player_embedded Rep. Steny Hoyer (D) DENOUNCING the use of a self-executing rule (aka 'the Slaughter Rule') back in 2003.
March 17, 2010 at 7:48 PM Report abuse
DTOM said...
"When the Republican leadership reported a self-executing rule providing for the adoption of the $82 billion plan over 10 years and an almost trillion-dollar plan over 20 years, accelerating the increased child tax credit for low-income people families, we didn't even get an opportunity to vote on the bill itself except by reference in a self-executing rule. What kind of lack of confidence does that display? What kind of process in pursuit of effectiveness does that mean that we are adopting? What kind of demeaning of democracy is the objective of efficiency resulting in?" - Hoyer in 2003 ---- http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/03/17/self-executing-hypocrisy-democratic-edition/
March 17, 2010 at 8:05 PM Report abuse
DTOM said...
2010: House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer on the idea of passing health care with a self-executing rule: The House Democratic leader, Representative Steny H. Hoyer, also defended the maneuver on Tuesday. “It is consistent with the rules,” Mr. Hoyer said. “It is consistent with former practice.”---- http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/03/17/self-executing-hypocrisy-democratic-edition/#ixzz0iTwoz9HB
March 17, 2010 at 8:06 PM Report abuse