Our Views: Federal energy funds should not create jobs overseas
Money spent on wind turbines from China will not jump-start an industry in America.
The whole point of the federal government's stimulus program is to create jobs. In America.
Unfortunately, that's not how it's working out, according to four U.S. senators who raise concerns that should not be ignored.
According to Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., and three of his Democratic colleagues, a program aimed at building wind farms and other clean-energy projects is spending too much with overseas vendors. That might generate economic activity, but it won't do us much good if it's in the wrong economy.
The main reasons that green energy was an appropriate area for stimulus spending was that it would not only create short-term construction jobs, but it would also jump-start a domestic industry that would play a growing role in our future.
President Obama has repeatedly said that the best things about green energy jobs is that they are sustainable and they can't be outsourced. But it appears that American companies that benefit from Recovery Act funds could do just that, by buying technology from foreign manufacturers.
Schumer has focused on Cielo Wind Power of Austin, Texas, which has said it may apply for up to $450 million in stimulus funding for a massive wind farm that would be powered by turbines built in China.
Other countries may be ahead of us in alternative energy technology, but that's why our industry needs the jump-start. Emerging energy equipment companies in Maine could miss out on this wave of investment if the use of the money is not restricted.
If U.S. companies want to trade with foreign vendors, that's their option, but American taxpayers should not bankroll the deal. Jobs created by this program should be created in this country.
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39 COMMENTS
Jack_Pine said...
The whole idea of green jobs is a myth. It's one of those feel good catch phrases du jour that doesn't stand up against scrutiny. All the wind "farm" jobs in Maine will be construction and thus short term. After they are gone, Maine will be left with the scars of this folly.
March 5, 2010 at 6:27 AM Report abuse
ThorEau said...
A wind farm with say 40 turbines has about 2-3 full time jobs attached to it. That's far less than what will be lost in tourism when people stop coming to the area now that it has been industrialized. But Mainers will be left with higher electricity rates and large additional surcharges on their electric bills due to the massive transmission the wind complexes require, That is bad for businesses all around. Another bad idea from people who have never worked in the real world.
March 5, 2010 at 6:32 AM Report abuse
Arthur said...
The reason Europe and Asia are getting rich selling us wind turbines is because their own people don't want to buy them. They learned already what we will learn the hard way- that wind power is a groovy idea that just doesn't work unless you have gargantuan conventional power to cover for wind's many flaws. Now, nearly every governor in America has convinced their electorate that they are the "Saudi Arabia of Wind" (Google it) and that they not only will make cheap green electricity, but they will create a technology industry, and import turbines all over the world to satisfy this booming industry. They're all running fools errands, but what the heck--it's federal money, not ours.
March 5, 2010 at 6:47 AM Report abuse
7199 said...
Maine doesn't need costly, intermittent power from turbines plastered all over the mountaintops. We need lower plentiful juice, not some wacky endeavor that makes a certain few in our state wealthy with taxpayer money.
March 5, 2010 at 7:18 AM Report abuse
Blueyes1119 said...
Here's some insight for Press Herald area people. 50 miles north of Bangor, in the little town of Chester is the old Chester Fairgrounds. Buried under several feet of snow and ice: 40 wind turbines, each with a nameplate saying 1.5 MW and "Made in China"! Also in that holding area are 120 composite blades, each 124 feet long, "Made in Brazil". This is the inventory that First Wind had purchased for the Rollins project in Lincoln, which is stymied by people who don't want the ridges above the beautiful 15 Lincoln Lakes blasted apart and clearcut for a sprawling industrial wind site. Oh, yes, these components belong to First Wind, teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, that got $115 million of your taxpayers dollars from Obama last year and have their grubby paws out for more. This is so typical of the rush to throw public money down the rat hole of useless wind development!
March 5, 2010 at 7:55 AM Report abuse
TheCaptain said...
The best green jobs are constructing and retrofitting buildings with super insulation. Like plowing snow and catching lobsters, those jobs can't be outsourced. The best windpower would be a small rig on individual homes. Such a rig, with solar and/or geothermal components, could easily power and heat a super-insulated building. Also, inhabitants wouldn't need to run around the house in heavy sweaters, either. Wind farms are for large, industrial applications, which most of us don't need. In any event, I'm with the editors on this one. Federal stimulus money should stay in the U.S., not funneled through the Lincoln Bedroom to China, or to CMP (Central Spain Power).
March 5, 2010 at 7:59 AM Report abuse
Jack_Pine said...
Here's some news Maine: people will not pay extra for anything green and wind always costs more - lots more. "Some programs have not been as popular as expected, May added. NStar Green, the program under which consumers can pay a premium to ensure some of their electricity is generated by wind, has attracted only 8,000 NStar customers - less than 1 percent of the company’s 1.1 million electricity consumers, he said. “We were a little disappointed that it was not greater,’’ May said. “Being the greenest states in the land of the free, we have a more educated audience, we have a more concerned, socially conscious audience. So we thought we would do better.’’ http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/green/articles/2010/01/20/nstar_chief_not_sold_on_cape_wind/
March 5, 2010 at 8:49 AM Report abuse
ThorEau said...
Every week or so another town in Maine wisely votes in a wind MORATORIUM. This was done yesterday in Penobscot at its annual town meeting. http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/138285.html
March 5, 2010 at 9:23 AM Report abuse
sdemetri said...
I also agree with the editors on this, and with the Captain's comment. Jack Pine doesn't seem to understand the start up industries often are not the most cost effective per unit of output until they become established. There is quite of bit of good precedent to learn from in the decades of wind energy Europe has been generating. Experience that shows the pitfalls as well as the benefits. And given the decades of use, experience I'd say has shown that the benefits have prevailed.
March 5, 2010 at 9:38 AM Report abuse
Jack_Pine said...
sdemetri - industrial wind is a mature technology and it gets close to 100 times the subsidy per unit of electricity produced than things like oil. See table 35 on page 106: http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/subsidy2/pdf/chap5.pdf Notice wind is $23.37 and oil is a quarter. Or geothermal is 92 cents. This doesn't include even half of the other freebies they get, like the $115 million stimulus given outright to bail out First Wind.
March 5, 2010 at 10:04 AM Report abuse
Jack_Pine said...
sdemetri - see:http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/02/wind_energys_ghosts_1.html "At that point the whole pyramid collapsed. They are firing thousands of people. BP closed down the two largest solar production plants in Europe. They are firing between 25,000 and 40,000 people...." "What do we do with all this industry that we have been creating with subsidies that now is collapsing? The bubble is too big. We cannot continue pumping enough money. ...The President of the Renewable Industry in Spain (wrote a column arguing that) ...the only way is finding other countries that will give taxpayers' money away to our industry to take it and continue maintaining these jobs."
March 5, 2010 at 10:10 AM Report abuse
Jack_Pine said...
sedemetri - for the German wind failure, see: http://www.europeanenergyreview.eu/data/docs/Viewpoints/p_renewable+energy+report+rwi+format.pdf "...the government’s support mechanisms have in many respects subverted these incentives, resulting in massive expenditures that show little long-term promise for stimulating the economy, protecting the environment, or increasing energy security."
March 5, 2010 at 10:14 AM Report abuse
Q2l2aWxEZWJhdGU%3D said...
There's more than enough wind and solar to fill our energy needs. If we built that stuff here, we'd stop subsidizing unstable and unfriendly regimes with oil money. What could be more patriotic than that? Drill, baby, drill?
March 5, 2010 at 10:15 AM Report abuse
ThorEau said...
Our politicians need to stop repeating the big lie that if we help their friends in Wind, we'll get off oil. In Maine we use hydro and gas - not oil, to make electricity. The two things we do use opil for, heating and driving, are not realistically accomplished with electricity. What about, abundant Canadian natural gas and hydro?
March 5, 2010 at 10:31 AM Report abuse
GURRY70 said...
ThorEau - What does Cousins Island use for fuel? How much in fed stimilus money is Angus King's wind project receiving and where will his windmills manfactured?
March 5, 2010 at 10:58 AM Report abuse
sdemetri said...
Jack, the american thinker article doesn't say much, other than old technology that got heavily subsidized didn't work well. That is more to my point than yours. The German article is not helpful either. Solar is less well established, on the industrial scale, and it is entirely prudent to experiment with it to see what works and what doesn't. Sorry, you haven't proven your point. Green jobs are no myth as the Capt. points out. I heavily insulated my house last summer and have seen a marked decrease in my energy costs. And conservation is one area where some of the most immediate savings are to be found. And I stand by my earlier statement that less established technologies generally have a higher per unit output cost until they get well established... in not just the actual technology, but in how it is implemented, financed, and integrated into the large system.
March 5, 2010 at 11:26 AM Report abuse
ThorEau said...
In my opinion both of King's wind projects are just about toast. They would have received tens of millions via virtue of the federal 2.1 cent per KWH taxpayer giveaway, as well as double declining depreciation. Rumor is their backer may be the Yale Endowment, and they have gotten nervous. The principals can go back to their oversized homes and bemoan their own massive carbon footprints.
March 5, 2010 at 11:30 AM Report abuse
Jack_Pine said...
sdemetri - you are absolutley correct on weatherization/insulation. Huge returns and the best thing Maine can do as we heat with oil and we have old leaky housing stock. But you are woefully wrong on all else. Do yourself a favor and back up your statements and also study this subject. Do not attempt before your koolaid wears off. One day you'll come around.
March 5, 2010 at 11:35 AM Report abuse
Arthur said...
Cousins Island is an oil plant (which should be converted to gas. At 82 megawatts, it could power every light in Maine. But it rarely generates except for peaking at times when the grid needs a little extra margin. Check with EIA to confirm: http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/state/state_energy_profiles.cfm?sid=ME As of November, Maine's electricity generation from oil was LESS THAN HALF OF ONE PERCENT of all our generated electricity. Oil is for heating and transportation. Baldacci's sputtering windmills won't help that.
March 5, 2010 at 11:41 AM Report abuse
sdemetri said...
Another way to look at this might be what happened to farming as a result of big agri-business. And this happens all over the world. Small, independent farmers through policies that help the much bigger industry interests, from suppliers of seed, fertilizer, to the markets that buy small output farm products, prevented small farmers from competing forcing them out of business. This has happened here and all over the world. The answer is that industrial scale is not necessarily the best way to go. To the Captain's point, green jobs that provide individuals with energy solutions are very possible. A friend has a wind turbine in a location with lots of wind and has decreased his cmp bill by about 1/3. That's not for everyone, but it would be for many. Conservation is an area for many green jobs. Other technologies can fill in other gaps, with a net total being energy savings, and jobs.
March 5, 2010 at 11:47 AM Report abuse
sdemetri said...
My preferred beverage is single malt... not kool aid... btw.
March 5, 2010 at 11:53 AM Report abuse
Arthur said...
Bemitri, I don't think he's arguing with you. Small scale, independent, and micro generation would be great (as long as affordable and practical). The industrial wind turbines are all wrong. And they do nothing to reduce our use of electricity or energy. Priority #1 ought to be putting those billions not into chinese machines, but into Maine contractors' hands...to do weatherization, efficiency, conservation jobs. BTW, thoose chinese machines are being paid for with tax dollars, which are being borrrowed from...you guessed it...China. How's that for an economic stimulus ripple effect? Schumer is right. Snowe and Collins need to smarten up.
March 5, 2010 at 11:59 AM Report abuse
lordpeter said...
The sad part about all this industrial wind power is that none of it generated in Maine will stay in Maine. All of it will go to other states. Maine exports power now. We have more than we need. Why destroy our biggest industry, tourism, to line the pockets of a few con men who build these things and laugh all the way to the bank when Maine wakes up and realizes it has been snookered. Jobs? You want jobs? Invest in weatherization of homes and businesses. That would give many people jobs and save heating oil.
March 5, 2010 at 12:07 PM Report abuse
Jawest said...
STOP ALL DEMOCRATS!! GOD BLESS AMERICA
March 5, 2010 at 12:57 PM Report abuse
Jawest said...
GREEN IS RED (COMMUNISTS) SAVE THE USA
March 5, 2010 at 1:04 PM Report abuse
Jack_Pine said...
sdemetri - there are several things that I actually like about putting up wind or solar at one's own home. 1. The turbines are not 400' tall 2. Presumably you would be less likely to disturb any neighbors than the industrial wind plantations. 3. Energy is not lost due to transmission distance 4. No huge transmission lines 5. Possibility of having power in a grid outage. 6. The decision is your - it's not shoved down your throat.
March 5, 2010 at 1:18 PM Report abuse
Arthur said...
Jawest- that's vulgar, thank you very much. Besides, this isn't a partisan issue. Pork and wrong-headed policy are not the province of any one party.
March 5, 2010 at 2:15 PM Report abuse
brightOne said...
JAWEST, don't break your jaw screaming. Nobody is listening anyway. Here's another one: Pike Industries got big contracts from Fed money shovel ready road projects. But the parent company that owns them mentioned in their annual report that if wasn't for the stimulus money they wouldn't have don't done very well this year. Well, the parent company, CRH, is based in Ireland. So much much for that stimulus money going to American companies. Nobody is minding the store while foreign companies are cashing in on our tax dollars. WTF!!!
March 5, 2010 at 3:21 PM Report abuse
ThorEau said...
Obama administration protecting the 'green' investments of its friends.The renewable energy scam and the crony capitalism that is enriching its promoters is thriving as never before. http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/03/obama_administration_protectin.html
March 5, 2010 at 3:33 PM Report abuse
brightOne said...
ThorEau, American Thinker is a right wing website. What else do you expect from them? Jack_Pine, green jobs may seem like a myth unless you have one, then they're not so mythological. I know people who do have green jobs in the solar panel market here in Maine. You obviously do not know anyone with a green job.
March 5, 2010 at 4:09 PM Report abuse
sdemetri said...
ThoReau, renewable energy is not a scam... untested market, but not a scam. The problem is we have a lousy manufacturing base in this country. We have priced ourselves out of the manufacturing market. It is so much cheaper to buy compact fluorescent bulbs from china. But they are a great conservation tool. Our problems are not simple. The composites development unit associated with UMO has potential to develop innovative materials, but without a manufacturing sector that somehow can compete to bring products to market, we are at a disadvantage. And talking about capitalist cronies... privatization of the military is a much bigger ($$$) and scarier innovation in that regard. And largely tied to our dependence on the oil fields and markets. You'd do better railing against that than trying to find alternatives means of energy production. Remember the missing $2Tril from the DOD not long ago?
March 5, 2010 at 4:42 PM Report abuse
sdemetri said...
And I got to say, industrial wind is probably wrong in some places, under some financing schemes, initially would be more expensive in regards to generation and transmission, but not in all circumstances... You guys have largely focussed on problems and failures. There are successes. Back to the editorial, buying components from China doesn't make much sense. The US is slated to spend about $80bil on stimulus on "green", China is expected to spend about $270bil on "green," this year alone, much of which will stay in china...
March 5, 2010 at 4:58 PM Report abuse
ThorEau said...
NEWSFLASH: The region’s electrical grid operator has determined that a $10 billion investment in transmission facilities would be needed to move energy from new wind farms to customers across New England. The governors from the six New England states hired the grid operator to conduct the power system study as part of a long-running effort to identify new energy sources, and the cost of bringing them on line. http://bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articleid=1237388
March 5, 2010 at 5:57 PM Report abuse
Chris said...
Chuck Schumer doesn't understand what he's talking about, as is the case for all too many in Congress, and therefore this editorial is "drivel."
March 5, 2010 at 8:38 PM Report abuse
Blueyes1119 said...
I am doing 2 consecutive posts due to the new space limits by PPH. Part 1: Building another power plant on the old Maine Yankee site or the Wyman site on Cousin's Island, feeding into existing and underutilized transmission lines, would solve any foreseeable increase in electrical usage in the part of Maine that is actually growing. Based on the Calpine plant in Westbrook that replaced Maine Yankee's output, consider this: That 540 megawatt generating plant was built on less than 100 acres about ten years ago for $300 million. This plant was built totally with investor funds in the real marketplace. Let's say a similar plant these days would be $500 million. That is $930,000 per MW.
March 5, 2010 at 11:17 PM Report abuse
Blueyes1119 said...
Part 2: The state's goal is 2700 MW of installed capacity of wind by 2020. Using a capacity factor of a generous 25%, that equals 675 MW. Based on the Rollins Project of First Wind proposed for the Lincoln Lakes area, to meet the state's goal would mean 45 Rollins-sized projects. Rollins will cost $120 million. Multiply by 45 and the cost soars to $5.4 Billion for those 670 MW, or $8 million per MW. Now add in the $1.4 Billion dollars for the transmission line expansion. Then consider, based on Rollins, that all the wind turbine sites will blast away over 350 miles of ridgelines and permanently clearcut more than 50,000 acres of carbon sequestering forests. Now compare these two scenarios. Which one makes the most economic sense? Which will cost taxpayer's money? Which will produce the less expensive electricity? Which will be reliable and predictable?
March 5, 2010 at 11:18 PM Report abuse
Coolfusion said...
They’re basically for public relations, educational purposes. They’re just not feasible for any significant amount of electrical generation,” The turbines succeeded in attracting publicity from the start, drawing national attention for all the wrong reasons, when the frigid Minnesota temperatures shut down the turbines before they ever got going. http://biggovernment.com/tsteward/2010/03/04/symbolic-wind-turbines-generating-more-p-r-than-power/
March 6, 2010 at 6:29 AM Report abuse
tenacity said...
wow the rainbow reporter is really stepping out on the obvious no wonder dimone is struggling to find a lefty angle. lol
March 6, 2010 at 7:16 AM Report abuse
trisailer said...
I agree that this tax money should not be going overseas, but how do you find a truly American owned company these days? This money should be spent on insulating homes and upgrading infastructure.
March 6, 2010 at 8:01 AM Report abuse