Editor’s note: With the prospect of a Wal-Mart coming to Westbrook in doubt, Saunders Brothers President Josh Saunders sat down with the American Journal Friday to reflect on the history of his company, the Wal-Mart proposal, neighbor relations and what he believes the future might hold for his family’s property.

How long has Saunders Brothers been in Westbrook?

Saunders: The company has been at this site approaching 90 years. It started in Waterford. They moved around the south central portion of the state. They had a fair number of locations at the start, because they would move the mill to where the wood was.

What did you make here at the mill?

Saunders: We made all sorts of things, but the starting point was always dowels. We made a line of bathroom furniture for J.C. Penney for years. We also made Fisher-Price Little People when they were made of wood. The finished product may have not looked like a dowel, but pretty much everything we made started as a dowel.

When did you first make the decision to close the Westbrook mill and sell the property?

Saunders: We made the decision in 2002. We announced it to our employees in September of that year.

Why did Saunders Brothers make the decision to close the mill?

Saunders: The level of business had declined to the point that we had too much capacity within the corporation. At that time we had the Westbrook facility, we were leasing a facility in Rumford and we had purchased the Gilbert Manufacturing Mill, which is in Locke Mills. We had two mills that were making the same basic product line, namely small diameter dowels and products from those dowels. We had another mill in Locke Mills that was not operating at the time, and we just had way too much overhead for the level of sales that we were generating.

Why did you decide to close the Westbrook mill as opposed to the one in Locke Mills?

Saunders: For a number of reasons. One, (the Westbrook mill) is the single biggest asset of the corporation. Two, labor is more expensive here than it is in Locke Mills, and it was also getting more and more difficult to find people in this area that are willing to do manufacturing work. So it was getting more and more difficult to replace the employees that we had lost. Another big reason is we’ve got a lot of land out there that was originally a log yard, and we knew we couldn’t support saw mill operations anymore. We could no longer make a dowel from the log all the way to the dowel, we knew we were going to have to start buying boards. We buy dowels from Lithuania now. We have a partnership there so we import dowels and use them. So, this chunk of land was too big for what we needed. So you’re going to have to eventually have to sell off some portion.

What operations are going here in Westbrook now?

Saunders: We still have a warehouse operation, though I would say by this fall or winter that’s going to be significantly reduced if not moved to an area closer to Locke Mills. We have a main office operation and then we have a brokerage division. Between the main office and the brokerage division, I would say we’ve got about 15 employees here. In the warehouse, there are about five or six, so you have about 20 employees total. At its peak in the 1970s, there were about 300 employees.

After you made the decision to close the mill, what caused you to make the decision to try and sell the site for retail development?

Saunders: Because we felt it was a higher and better use for the property than industrial. It would be better for the company because we would get more value for the land, and I think it’s better for the city. I don’t think the city wants another industrial site.

Did you look at any options other than retail?

Saunders: We considered other uses, but we ruled them out pretty quickly. One, there isn’t much of a demand for an industrial site. Two, there’s a huge difference in the value of industrial versus retail land. As far as business office and other uses like that, there’s other vacant land in the city that doesn’t require the tearing down of buildings. We just felt this site was pretty far down on the list of lots to develop if someone were looking for a business office type development.

When did Wal-Mart first express interest in the property?

Saunders: I would say somewhere in the fall of 2003.

Were you specifically thinking of Wal-Mart when you decided to sell the property for retail development?

Saunders: We didn’t go out looking for Wal-Mart, but we went out looking for big box.

Once you started working with Wal-Mart, when did you decide to notify the neighbors about your plans?

Saunders: We had the first meeting with the neighbors in November of 2003.

How did that initial meeting go?

Saunders: Then, I thought it went very well. There were members of the city administration here, there were members of the City Council here. That was the first time we saw drawings of the proposed Supercenter on the site, I thought in general it went fairly well. In hindsight, it didn’t go as well as I thought it went. I guess it unleashed issues that we didn’t really realize were problems at the time.

As Westbrook Our Home organized to oppose the zone change and Wal-Mart, was that frustrating for you?

Saunders: The anti-Wal-Mart portion of it is frustrating to me. The concern of the neighbors as to how any development of this site would affect their lives isn’t frustrating to me.

Do you feel that you have been treated fairly by the City Council and the Planning Board through this whole process?

Saunders: I believe it’s been a fair process, I don’t believe the result is a fair result.

Once the zoning of the property was changed from industrial to Gateway commercial, were you frustrated at the council’s decision to have the Planning Board place additional restrictions on the project?

Saunders: No, because all the councilors who were for the zoning change had said they wanted to look at whether additional restrictions were needed or not. It was pretty well expected. And I don’t think it was wrong. I don’t think the concept of additional restrictions is a bad concept.

While there has been a lot of debate over the restrictions, the biggest one seems to be the size of the store. Do you agree with the 160,000 square foot limit?

Saunders: I think a 160,000 square foot limit is too low when you consider all of the other protections that are in place in the standards.

What would you have liked the limit to be?

Saunders: Speaking as a representative of the corporation, 180,000 square feet. My own personal belief is I don’t think given those restrictions, I don’t think the size of the store matters. But as a corporation, I don’t care. I’ve got the deal at 180,000, I don’t care if it’s more than 180,000.

Do you think that a larger store could have been adequately buffered to protect the neighbors?

Saunders: Yes.

Now that the restrictions are in place, do you expect Wal-Mart will still be interested in the property?

Saunders: I honestly don’t know. We’ll wait for their answer. It’s going to take far longer than a week for a corporation the size of Wal-Mart to decide how they want to move forward on this.

If Wal-Mart isn’t interested, what do you think you will do with the property?

Saunders: I’m going to sell it. But to whom or for what use, I’ve got absolutely no idea.

Has anyone else come forward with a serious interest in purchasing the property?

Saunders: Not what I would consider to be a serious interest.

Looking back, do you ever regret your decision to let people know Wal-Mart was looking at the property as early in the process as you did?

Saunders: It’s kind of a two-part answer. Do I regret making the decision based on the information and knowledge at the point that we made that decision? No, I don’t. If I knew everything I know right now, through not getting 180,000 square feet, then I don’t think as the president of this corporation, and it’s the corporation that owns the property, that I could make that same decision again. I have responsibilities to the company and its employees. Given how this is working out, I couldn’t put those things at risk to try and protect the neighbors.

Do you have any regrets about how this situation has developed?

Saunders: I regret that business got to the point that we ever had to think about selling. I’d far rather be running three shifts a day and have the business to support that. That’s my biggest regret. If I had the power to change anything in the world, it would be that. Take me back in time and give me the business and let me just stay here and operate. As far as (Wal-Mart) goes, if we had gotten the compromise at 180,000 square feet to sell the property and allowed the neighbors to be protected and allowed us all to move on with our lives, then I would still feel it took way too long for this to happen. But I would feel like we had done the right thing and gotten a fair result.

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